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Today's Topics:
1. Fwd: ayo should go byo (damali ayo)
2. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (tobias c. van Veen)
3. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (Michael Arnold Mages)
4. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (tobias c. van Veen)
5. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (Katherine Moriwaki)
6. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (claudia@anat.org.au)
7. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (claudia@anat.org.au)
8. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (claudia@anat.org.au)
9. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (claudia@anat.org.au)
10. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (Lloyd Sharp)
11. Re: Fwd: ayo should go byo (tobias c. van Veen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:33:12 -0700
From: damali ayo <damali@damaliayo.com>
Subject: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: empyre group list <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <v04210112bb4316f56bb6@[65.58.0.1]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
someone earlier on the list asked me what kind of responses i
receive. here is something that arrived today. i'll leave it at that,
without commentary.
yesterday i got five messages with choice language calling me a
series of names. let me know if you all are interested in reading
those or any other responses.
damali
Though race does play a large part in one's everyday life, it seems
you have let race become your entire life. I am proud of my
heritage, that is a part of me, it is my bloodline, however it does
not control all of my daily actions and thoughts. You seem to be
over zealous and perhaps blinded by your own intelligence. I am
white, and I went to your website rent a negro .com. How do you
expect racial tranquility when you promote such an idea. Yes, many
white people do not know anything personal about black people,
however the same is true on the other side of the coin. You claim
that this service helps white people to understand blacks. In fact
i would argue the opposite. By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit. "Touch her skin" Touch her hair" $25. AFter reading the
price list, and all of the quotes which refer to the black person as
"her", I wonder whether this is an actual cultural service, or are
you running a black prostitution ring. How are you helping the race
problem when you are allowing white people to pay blacks to vouch
for them as not a racist? All in all, I believe that you have a
skewed view of white people, perhaps you should try rentwhitey.com.
I live in evanston, il, just north of chicago. I went ot a high
school that was about half white and half black. people learned to
get along withouth using racial escort services, which is what you
are. I don't think that most white people, the majority of whom
diod not get to experience such a diverse deducational environment,
are sitting around in their house wondering what a blakc person's
hair feels like. In closing, you seem to be anti-white, making you
practically the same as the racsits you despise. YOu are not
helping the race situation in America, in fact you are prolonging
it. Reading about you onyour website, it seems that you are a
fairly intelligent person, which is a same that such a gift was
wasted on you.
oh by the way if i fucked up on the spelling in this email, just
know that I was typing fast because I was looking at black porn on
the computer, wondering what a black woman feels like. Oh iknow,
I'll just call rent a negro .com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:36:16 -0400
From: "tobias c. van Veen" <tobias@rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: empyre <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <BB42EE50.992C%tobias@rhizome.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
To pose a question perhaps already asked .. is this a problematic of
people
simply "not getting the humour"?
If so, what does this say about the production of "humour"?
I noticed that this comment parallels the comments & debates amongst
the
readers/viewers on blackpeopleloveus.com -- which makes me wonder if a
byproduct of such art is the creation of a "third clique," perhaps
neither
black nor white dominated (it seems about equal on the site-- although
I
would be curious as to what Damali [sorry for the 3rd person.. this is
addressed to the list] has received via email, what the response ratio
is
like, and how often people identify their race in response...), that
then
espouses how they all "get it," and make fun of those who "don't,"
like the
person below, thus recreating another type of exclusion based upon
"understanding" the role of satire-as-political (humour).
For whatever reason, this well-meaning "whitey" doesn't "get" the
humour or
the role of provocation.
If the art is meant to transact politically, should other tactics be
considered that differ from satire, so this situation is somehow
deconstructed as well .. ie this "third clique of I-get-it satire"?
Is this the next step?
These are all massive questions & I don't have any answers... just
continuous twists of the brain trying to follow what happens when this
type
of work--difficult work, serious work, yet funny work--is engaged. And
to
that I bow to the artist with all gravity.
best, tV
someone earlier on the list asked me what kind of responses i
receive. here is something that arrived today. i'll leave it at that,
without commentary.
yesterday i got five messages with choice language calling me a
series of names. let me know if you all are interested in reading
those or any other responses.
damali
Though race does play a large part in one's everyday life, it seems
you have let race become your entire life. I am proud of my
heritage, that is a part of me, it is my bloodline, however it does
not control all of my daily actions and thoughts. You seem to be
over zealous and perhaps blinded by your own intelligence. I am
white, and I went to your website rent a negro .com. How do you
expect racial tranquility when you promote such an idea. Yes, many
white people do not know anything personal about black people,
however the same is true on the other side of the coin. You claim
that this service helps white people to understand blacks. In fact
i would argue the opposite. By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit. "Touch her skin" Touch her hair" $25. AFter reading the
price list, and all of the quotes which refer to the black person as
"her", I wonder whether this is an actual cultural service, or are
you running a black prostitution ring. How are you helping the race
problem when you are allowing white people to pay blacks to vouch
for them as not a racist? All in all, I believe that you have a
skewed view of white people, perhaps you should try rentwhitey.com.
I live in evanston, il, just north of chicago. I went ot a high
school that was about half white and half black. people learned to
get along withouth using racial escort services, which is what you
are. I don't think that most white people, the majority of whom
diod not get to experience such a diverse deducational environment,
are sitting around in their house wondering what a blakc person's
hair feels like. In closing, you seem to be anti-white, making you
practically the same as the racsits you despise. YOu are not
helping the race situation in America, in fact you are prolonging
it. Reading about you onyour website, it seems that you are a
fairly intelligent person, which is a same that such a gift was
wasted on you.
oh by the way if i fucked up on the spelling in this email, just
know that I was typing fast because I was looking at black porn on
the computer, wondering what a black woman feels like. Oh iknow,
I'll just call rent a negro .com
_______________________________________________
empyre forum
empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
http://www.subtle.net/empyre
tobias c. van Veen -----------
http://www.quadrantcrossing.org
http://www.thisistheonlyart.com
------------- tobias@rhizome.org
---McGill Communications------
ICQ: 18766209 | AIM: thesaibot
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:16:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Michael Arnold Mages <magesm@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID:
<4108613.1058901402689.JavaMail.nobody@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit.
I think the most interesting thing in this entire response is that
this respondent has "gotten it" without realizing that they "got it".
The shame of it is, that this line of thought was not followed on with
"Hmmm... Where else have I seen blacks made into an 'exotic
delicatessen' for whites?"
Which leads me to another question--and this may be a grotesque
generalization--it seems that this month has been fairly light; but
damali's site gets >5 emails a day expressing (inarticulate) outrage,
hostility, etcetera... It seems to me that those with polemic views
have no problem sharing them. However, it seems to me that there is
not a great amount of thoughtful discussion (in non-academic fora)
about how race is a part of social discourse. Is it fear of giving
offense that mutes considered conversation?
-Michael
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:50:23 -0400
From: "tobias c. van Veen" <tobias@rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: empyre <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <BB430DBF.9955%tobias@rhizome.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Which leads me to another question--and this may be a grotesque
generalization--it seems that this month has been fairly light; but
damali's
site gets >5 emails a day expressing (inarticulate) outrage,
hostility,
etcetera... It seems to me that those with polemic views have no
problem
sharing them. However, it seems to me that there is not a great
amount of
thoughtful discussion (in non-academic fora) about how race is a part
of
social discourse. Is it fear of giving offense that mutes considered
conversation?
Well, as I already made a brief foray into this -- I'll be honest and
say
"yes."
I sat and considered these sites and this conversation for awhile..
and what
I realised was that, "as a Canadian"--and I'm not sure what that
means--my
involvement with race differs from what I grossly generalise as "the
US-based conception." I'm not judging one over the other (far from
it), but
trying to grapple the difference found in theories and practicalities
of
race on the two sides of the Northern border. Identity-politics are
less an
issue in Canada... perhaps it goes back to the difference in melting
pot v.
multiculturalism gov't policies, or back to the earlier differences in
slave-trade history... which isn't to say Canada isn't racist (far
from it;
our history includes the probable genocide of various First Nations,
the use
of Japanese immigrant slave-labour to build the railroad,
Japanese-Canadian
internment camps in World War II, a horrible record with residential
schools
and the abusing power of the Church, a disastrous record with the
Inuit, and
all the power manifestations of white (primarily male) domination
across
Canadian society).
So the issues are tangled for me, and marked by difference of "nation"
(ironic to hear in the theorisation of post-nationalism... but not
surprising in Canada given our urgent desire to mark ourselves as
different
from US imperialism). I tend to think of the "satirical" sites
mentioned
here as being very provocative, and for lack of a better word (&
opening
myself to attack), "American." I'm trying to figure out if there is a
different artist response up here, and what that might mean in terms of
earlier comments about "not getting it"-- that maybe the satiric
approach
only works with a certain "culture," perhaps a class, that "will" get
it.
I'd be curious to know where the emails are coming from, I guess...
best, tobias
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:53:56 +0100
From: "Katherine Moriwaki" <kaki@kakirine.com>
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <200307222253.AA13959832@moog.mee.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Michael Arnold Mages <magesm@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:16:39 -0600 (MDT)
However, it seems to me that there is not a great amount of
thoughtful >discussion (in non-academic fora) about how race is a
part of social >discourse. Is it fear of giving offense that mutes
considered >conversation?
I think it has both to do with that, and because of the "heroes and
holidays" approach to race... many people tend to avoid thinking about
race and racism because it does not "apply" to them. I liked damali's
suggestion for a net.art project, subscribing people to a black facts
list to see how long it takes for people to unsubscribe. how long
*would* people stay on such a list?
---------- Original Message ------------------------
From: Michael Arnold Mages <magesm@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:16:39 -0600 (MDT)
By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit.
I think the most interesting thing in this entire response is that
this respondent has "gotten it" without realizing that they "got it".
The shame of it is, that this line of thought was not followed on with
"Hmmm... Where else have I seen blacks made into an 'exotic
delicatessen' for whites?"
Which leads me to another question--and this may be a grotesque
generalization--it seems that this month has been fairly light; but
damali's site gets >5 emails a day expressing (inarticulate) outrage,
hostility, etcetera... It seems to me that those with polemic views
have no problem sharing them. However, it seems to me that there is
not a great amount of thoughtful discussion (in non-academic fora)
about how race is a part of social discourse. Is it fear of giving
offense that mutes considered conversation?
-Michael
_______________________________________________
empyre forum
empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
http://www.subtle.net/empyre
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:06:16 +091800
From: claudia@anat.org.au
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1058913376.3f1dbc6091188@shiraz.va.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
for sure there is ONE THING I CAN SAY ... it has never been the BLACK
PEOPLE OF
THIS PLANET that based their initial wealth on Slavery as some of the
most
wealthy countries on EARTH today had done ...
i come from america, not the amerika of donald rumsfeld and killing Co
but the
real america, the two turtles that keep the big snake at the centre in
peace,
and i can tell you that i know 18 MILLION PEOPLE MANAGED to survive
the forced
and criminal trip from AFRICA to AMERICA in the WHITE EUROPEAN
CIVILIZED boats,
and around 18 MILLION didn't make it ... and this, is only a LITTLE
WHILE
AGO ...
my people, because i have many bloods in me, i am a total mongrel, but
the
people i am proud of is the MAPUCHE people, has a MAJOR cycle of 60
THOUSAND
YEARS and for people with this time of TIME SCALE, 200 years is
nothing but a
blink of an eye ...
white people want us to forget but we can't ...
it is our land and we are happy to share it in a caring way with all
but nobody
can be happy to take a deal that humiliates and alienates the
custodians of the
land, because my people DO NOT OWN THE LAND, MY PEOPLE ARE THE PEOPLE
OF THE
LAND, MY PEOPLE ARE THERE TO CARE FOR THE LAND AND TO PROMOTE BALANCE
IN THE
U N I V E R S E,
which is exactly what my people believe is the ONE AND ONLY
RESPONSIBILITY OF
HUMAN BEINGS ...
if my people had done the killing and the taking i would be humble ...
this is
how i feel about PERU and BOLIVIA, because Chile did the dirty work
for the
british and took land and killed many people in PERU, in the most
attrocious
way and took land from BOLIVIA and BOLIVIA is locked inside the
continent with
no coast and no sea ... if i could i would say:
SORRY FOR WHAT WE HAVE DONE, ALTHOUGH I PERSONALLY WASN'T IN THAT WAR,
AND
PLEASE HERE TAKE YOUR LAND BACK AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE YOU
THINK WE
SHOULD DO PLEASE LET US KNOW ...
i would like to share with you this page:
http://www.parallelo-distance.net/claudia/living-in-a-jungle.htm
we had a say in chile: let the dogs bark because this tells us we are
moving
along ! ! !
never mind them, the doggas, just keep walking, one day we'll get
somewhere,
hopefully we'll get there before the white people unleashed all
methane on
EARTH with their poisonous gases, their extraordinarily damaging super
sonic
jets, their rubbish dumps ... because the day the methane unleashes
the AMAZON
JUNGLE will also be burning and there will be nothing then to save or
do until
the whole thing comes to a halt and we enter into a new glaciar period
and
hopefully as life is so resilient some organic life forms would have
made it
after the horror ...
there is not much life left to our planet, SHE IS AN OLD LADY and it
is sad to
think that this is her horrible future ... this is what people who do
not
understand that we only belong to the land seem to get ...
kind regards, claudia {;-)
cheers claudia {;-)
Quoting damali ayo <damali@damaliayo.com>:
someone earlier on the list asked me what kind of responses i
receive. here is something that arrived today. i'll leave it at that,
without commentary.
yesterday i got five messages with choice language calling me a
series of names. let me know if you all are interested in reading
those or any other responses.
damali
Though race does play a large part in one's everyday life, it seems
you have let race become your entire life. I am proud of my
heritage, that is a part of me, it is my bloodline, however it does
not control all of my daily actions and thoughts. You seem to be
over zealous and perhaps blinded by your own intelligence. I am
white, and I went to your website rent a negro .com. How do you
expect racial tranquility when you promote such an idea. Yes, many
white people do not know anything personal about black people,
however the same is true on the other side of the coin. You claim
that this service helps white people to understand blacks. In fact
i would argue the opposite. By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit. "Touch her skin" Touch her hair" $25. AFter reading the
price list, and all of the quotes which refer to the black person as
"her", I wonder whether this is an actual cultural service, or are
you running a black prostitution ring. How are you helping the race
problem when you are allowing white people to pay blacks to vouch
for them as not a racist? All in all, I believe that you have a
skewed view of white people, perhaps you should try rentwhitey.com.
I live in evanston, il, just north of chicago. I went ot a high
school that was about half white and half black. people learned to
get along withouth using racial escort services, which is what you
are. I don't think that most white people, the majority of whom
diod not get to experience such a diverse deducational environment,
are sitting around in their house wondering what a blakc person's
hair feels like. In closing, you seem to be anti-white, making you
practically the same as the racsits you despise. YOu are not
helping the race situation in America, in fact you are prolonging
it. Reading about you onyour website, it seems that you are a
fairly intelligent person, which is a same that such a gift was
wasted on you.
oh by the way if i fucked up on the spelling in this email, just
know that I was typing fast because I was looking at black porn on
the computer, wondering what a black woman feels like. Oh iknow,
I'll just call rent a negro .com
_______________________________________________
empyre forum
empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
http://www.subtle.net/empyre
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:13:14 +091800
From: claudia@anat.org.au
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1058913794.3f1dbe025e4f6@shiraz.va.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
oops in my last sentence i should have written:
seem NOT TO GET!!!
cheers, claudia ;-)
Quoting claudia@anat.org.au:
for sure there is ONE THING I CAN SAY ... it has never been the BLACK
PEOPLE
OF
THIS PLANET that based their initial wealth on Slavery as some of the
most
wealthy countries on EARTH today had done ...
i come from america, not the amerika of donald rumsfeld and killing
Co but
the
real america, the two turtles that keep the big snake at the centre
in peace,
and i can tell you that i know 18 MILLION PEOPLE MANAGED to survive
the
forced
and criminal trip from AFRICA to AMERICA in the WHITE EUROPEAN
CIVILIZED
boats,
and around 18 MILLION didn't make it ... and this, is only a LITTLE
WHILE
AGO ...
my people, because i have many bloods in me, i am a total mongrel,
but the
people i am proud of is the MAPUCHE people, has a MAJOR cycle of 60
THOUSAND
YEARS and for people with this time of TIME SCALE, 200 years is
nothing but a
blink of an eye ...
white people want us to forget but we can't ...
it is our land and we are happy to share it in a caring way with all
but
nobody
can be happy to take a deal that humiliates and alienates the
custodians of
the
land, because my people DO NOT OWN THE LAND, MY PEOPLE ARE THE PEOPLE
OF THE
LAND, MY PEOPLE ARE THERE TO CARE FOR THE LAND AND TO PROMOTE BALANCE
IN THE
U N I V E R S E,
which is exactly what my people believe is the ONE AND ONLY
RESPONSIBILITY OF
HUMAN BEINGS ...
if my people had done the killing and the taking i would be humble
... this
is
how i feel about PERU and BOLIVIA, because Chile did the dirty work
for the
british and took land and killed many people in PERU, in the most
attrocious
way and took land from BOLIVIA and BOLIVIA is locked inside the
continent
with
no coast and no sea ... if i could i would say:
SORRY FOR WHAT WE HAVE DONE, ALTHOUGH I PERSONALLY WASN'T IN THAT
WAR, AND
PLEASE HERE TAKE YOUR LAND BACK AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE YOU
THINK WE
SHOULD DO PLEASE LET US KNOW ...
i would like to share with you this page:
http://www.parallelo-distance.net/claudia/living-in-a-jungle.htm
we had a say in chile: let the dogs bark because this tells us we are
moving
along ! ! !
never mind them, the doggas, just keep walking, one day we'll get
somewhere,
hopefully we'll get there before the white people unleashed all
methane on
EARTH with their poisonous gases, their extraordinarily damaging
super sonic
jets, their rubbish dumps ... because the day the methane unleashes
the
AMAZON
JUNGLE will also be burning and there will be nothing then to save or
do
until
the whole thing comes to a halt and we enter into a new glaciar
period and
hopefully as life is so resilient some organic life forms would have
made it
after the horror ...
there is not much life left to our planet, SHE IS AN OLD LADY and it
is sad
to
think that this is her horrible future ... this is what people who do
not
understand that we only belong to the land seem to get ...
kind regards, claudia {;-)
cheers claudia {;-)
Quoting damali ayo <damali@damaliayo.com>:
someone earlier on the list asked me what kind of responses i
receive. here is something that arrived today. i'll leave it at that,
without commentary.
yesterday i got five messages with choice language calling me a
series of names. let me know if you all are interested in reading
those or any other responses.
damali
Though race does play a large part in one's everyday life, it seems
you have let race become your entire life. I am proud of my
heritage, that is a part of me, it is my bloodline, however it does
not control all of my daily actions and thoughts. You seem to be
over zealous and perhaps blinded by your own intelligence. I am
white, and I went to your website rent a negro .com. How do you
expect racial tranquility when you promote such an idea. Yes, many
white people do not know anything personal about black people,
however the same is true on the other side of the coin. You claim
that this service helps white people to understand blacks. In fact
i would argue the opposite. By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit. "Touch her skin" Touch her hair" $25. AFter reading the
price list, and all of the quotes which refer to the black person as
"her", I wonder whether this is an actual cultural service, or are
you running a black prostitution ring. How are you helping the race
problem when you are allowing white people to pay blacks to vouch
for them as not a racist? All in all, I believe that you have a
skewed view of white people, perhaps you should try rentwhitey.com.
I live in evanston, il, just north of chicago. I went ot a high
school that was about half white and half black. people learned to
get along withouth using racial escort services, which is what you
are. I don't think that most white people, the majority of whom
diod not get to experience such a diverse deducational environment,
are sitting around in their house wondering what a blakc person's
hair feels like. In closing, you seem to be anti-white, making you
practically the same as the racsits you despise. YOu are not
helping the race situation in America, in fact you are prolonging
it. Reading about you onyour website, it seems that you are a
fairly intelligent person, which is a same that such a gift was
wasted on you.
oh by the way if i fucked up on the spelling in this email, just
know that I was typing fast because I was looking at black porn on
the computer, wondering what a black woman feels like. Oh iknow,
I'll just call rent a negro .com
_______________________________________________
empyre forum
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:35:00 +091800
From: claudia@anat.org.au
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1058915100.3f1dc31c3c8a1@shiraz.va.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
some of the MOST SOUGHT EXOTIC DELICATESSEN for the very dirty minded
whites
are the M*U*L*A*T*A*S, beautiful women of mixed races ... i have seen
this in
brazil and cuba ... it is disgusting ... check these pages:
http://claudia.va.com.au/cuba/pages/the_people/05havana_buying_sex.htm
http://claudia.va.com.au/cuba/pages/the_people/
05havana_buying_sex_cup.htm
from: http://claudia.va.com.au/cuba/index.htm
i met a young couple when i was in La Havana for a Digital Art
Conference,
lovely people, I thougth they were trying to get one of the
participants in the
conference to pay for sex ... i said to them "i am sorry COMRADES, i
am a
communist and i disapprove of this practice" ... this broke the ice
and we sat
down and chatted for a while, i read them the TAROT and they
introduced me to
their AUNTY, a beautiful-funny-extremelly-clever-Afro-Cuban lady of
many, many,
many TALENTS ... she "hated" this practice, of selling ones body for
sex, and
found it very bad for the young girls in particular ...
Bundi and i became friends and I ended up in Guantanamo, where she
actually
lives ... yeap, that same Guantanamo that the amerikans should have had
returned to Cuba in the year 2000 but DIDN'T, because the amerikans DO
WHAT
EVER THEY LIKE, or don't they? including going to CUBA to buy their
beautiful
girls for cheap sex ... women so BEAUTIFUL they could only dream of
... how sad
it is if one has to buy people, for whatever the reason ...
cheers, claudia
Quoting Michael Arnold Mages <magesm@mindspring.com>:
By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit.
I think the most interesting thing in this entire response is that
this
respondent has "gotten it" without realizing that they "got it". The
shame
of it is, that this line of thought was not followed on with "Hmmm...
Where
else have I seen blacks made into an 'exotic delicatessen' for
whites?"
Which leads me to another question--and this may be a grotesque
generalization--it seems that this month has been fairly light; but
damali's
site gets >5 emails a day expressing (inarticulate) outrage,
hostility,
etcetera... It seems to me that those with polemic views have no
problem
sharing them. However, it seems to me that there is not a great
amount of
thoughtful discussion (in non-academic fora) about how race is a part
of
social discourse. Is it fear of giving offense that mutes considered
conversation?
-Michael
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:43:05 +091800
From: claudia@anat.org.au
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: kaki@kakirine.com, soft_skinned_space
<empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1058915585.3f1dc5017d43e@shiraz.va.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
probably not for too long ... have you ever seen the workshop blue
eye, i think
this is the name ... white people get angry, anxious, distressed,
cannot take
much at all of what they have been giving for centuries
cheers claudia {;-)
Quoting Katherine Moriwaki <kaki@kakirine.com>:
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Michael Arnold Mages <magesm@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:16:39 -0600 (MDT)
However, it seems to me that there is not a great amount of
thoughtful
discussion (in non-academic fora) about how race is a part of social
discourse. Is it fear of giving offense that mutes considered
conversation?
I think it has both to do with that, and because of the "heroes and
holidays"
approach to race... many people tend to avoid thinking about race and
racism
because it does not "apply" to them. I liked damali's suggestion for a
net.art project, subscribing people to a black facts list to see how
long it
takes for people to unsubscribe. how long *would* people stay on such
a list?
---------- Original Message ------------------------
From: Michael Arnold Mages <magesm@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:16:39 -0600 (MDT)
By having this service where human
beings are rented out, you are making blakc people seem like an
exotic delicatessent for white people. Blacks are made into an
exihibit.
I think the most interesting thing in this entire response is that
this
respondent has "gotten it" without realizing that they "got it". The
shame
of it is, that this line of thought was not followed on with "Hmmm...
Where
else have I seen blacks made into an 'exotic delicatessen' for
whites?"
Which leads me to another question--and this may be a grotesque
generalization--it seems that this month has been fairly light; but
damali's
site gets >5 emails a day expressing (inarticulate) outrage,
hostility,
etcetera... It seems to me that those with polemic views have no
problem
sharing them. However, it seems to me that there is not a great
amount of
thoughtful discussion (in non-academic fora) about how race is a part
of
social discourse. Is it fear of giving offense that mutes considered
conversation?
-Michael
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:39:54 +1000
From: Lloyd Sharp <lsharp@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <a05210619bb4376d7f4bf@[192.168.0.2]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
my people, because i have many bloods in me, i am a total mongrel,
but the
people i am proud of is the MAPUCHE people, has a MAJOR cycle of 60
THOUSAND
YEARS and for people with this time of TIME SCALE, 200 years is
nothing but a
blink of an eye ...
white people want us to forget but we can't ...
it is our land and we are happy to share it in a caring way with all
but nobody
can be happy to take a deal that humiliates and alienates the
custodians of the
land, because my people DO NOT OWN THE LAND, MY PEOPLE ARE THE PEOPLE
OF THE
LAND, MY PEOPLE ARE THERE TO CARE FOR THE LAND AND TO PROMOTE BALANCE
IN THE
It gets hard to differentiate race, culture, religion,
socio-economics and all the other issues that seem to get compressed
in this type of discussion...
Also to try and talk about the wider 'art' implications as though
separate from the the everyday 'life' issues is difficult.
I suspect that is why there has not been a great deal of contribution
to this months talkfest...
also the 'bite back' seems to be a little more vicious and guilt
generating...
2 things that I find interesting about it so far...
The question about whether the net is colourless...
Obviously people who access it are not, and there are many complex
issues raised such as:
is [American] English now the default language? and does this bring
with it any racial issues?
can you afford to connect? and does this bring with it any racial
issues?
and whether satire and humor is appropriate applied to an issue such
as race in the context of art and everyday life...
I like and find very amusing the sites that have been discussed so
far, however I can also see the difficulty for some in dealing with
them on a personal level. I cannot tell if this experience has
altered or somehow reflects my beliefs or behaviour in relation to
race issues... does that matter to anyone else?
I find the way the responses have affected the artists more
interesting than the number or qualities of the responses themselves.
Obviously responses to the use of the word 'nigger' can vary
dramatically from amusement to outrage, [aside from the other
content]. I think it is perfectly valid to use this type of work as a
mechanism for both comment and thoughtful provocation. However you
can also expect a heartfelt response from some, just as you can from
burning either a cross or an American flag on the lawns in front of
the white house - or doing it online where there are going to be a
lot of US citizens with strong connections to both iconic
representations.
An interesting [to me] comparison is the 'deck of cards' the USA has
circulated with the faces of iraqi identities.
Is this really amusing? or racist? or functionally useful? or
pointless? or unsuspecting provoking art?
on a related issue...
for those interested there is a great conference coming up in South
Africa in Jan next year
http://idlelo.uwc.ac.za/
First announcement
Dates: Jan 12-16, 2004
Venue: The University of the Western Cape
Cape Town, South Africa
The Free Software and Open Source Foundation for Africa (FOSSFA), the
African Virtual Open Initiatives and Resources (AVOIR) project at
the University of the Western Cape in collaboration with the United
Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA) invite you to
participate in this seminal event.
The conference will address the challenges and opportunities of the
creation and use of free / open source software and open content and
their development potential for Africa. The conference has both
strategic and practical objectives, bringing together participants
from government, education, business and civil society together with
the developer community. The purpose of this conference is to:
* Review progress on implementation of open source and open content in
Africa
* Create opportunities for peer-to-peer networking and learning among
Africans participating in open source and open content initiatives
* Lay the groundwork for collaborative creation of open source
software in Africa
* Expose Open Source companies and products to a variety of
participants
The conference will operate through a number of plenary sessions
given by world leaders in the area of open source and open content,
parallel sessions with contributed papers and posters addressing
specific themes, breakaway sessions for for networking, a mini trade
fair, and a hackathon that will run in parallel with the conference
beginning two days before the conference starts.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:08:15 -0400
From: "tobias c. van Veen" <tobias@rhizome.org>
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Fwd: ayo should go byo
To: empyre <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <BB43583F.999E%tobias@rhizome.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
probably not for too long ... have you ever seen the workshop blue
eye, i
think
this is the name ... white people get angry, anxious, distressed,
cannot take
much at all of what they have been giving for centuries
Critically, isn't the problem this "they" though?
Ie not essentialising a human based on colour, over generations?
["much at all of what they have been giving for centuries"--we might
also
ask if this is the same "gift" given centuries ago, or whether we can
chart
change and difference in this systematic violence, and whether this
violence
relates to positionality in the system and less a "they" complex than a
complex of the system itself .. I'm always reminded of that rather
infamous
psychology experiment which recreated a prison: inmates and guards
quickly
acquiesced to their roles... masochists and sadomasochists...slaves and
masters...].
Is there a way to express this in art without simply applying a
reverse,
sadomasochistic situation?
(...and here, on the Net--a venue whose "colour"--ie its claims to an
"essential whiteness"--are being held to the mats...)
In my own art practice, I have focused on group dynamics (through
venues of
excessive bodily practices in subcultures, for example) -- and I
wonder if
there are ways to unfold implicit and systematic violence in ways
which are
themselves not violent in their application.
tV
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End of empyre Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12
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